Published on October 8, 2008 By Artysim In Blogging

I'd like to share with you all an event that transpired this past weekend.

Normally, I don't like to blog about my personal life, because well, it's my personal life.

But this particular story is a microcosm of what's going on in the bigger picture, and why our society is so utterly screwed up.

On saturday, my girlfriend and I went to a local car dealership. She's looking to buy a new car, as she has an old beater she picked up a while back and it's time to part ways. In this particular instance, she's doing a trade in. Dealership takes her old beater, and subtracts a couple grand off the cost of the new vehicle.

To be fair to the dealership, they gave her a pretty good deal. She paid 3 grand for the beater 2 years ago and the dealership is knocking 2 grand off the cost of the new vehicle, with an existing price that's pretty decent to start with. But this article isn't about the car my girlfriend is getting.

It's about the car that they tried to sell me while I was there. I went there to do the supportive boyfriend thing. You know, to make sure they weren't ripping her off or anything like that. No interest in buying a new vehicle, not even looking.

Ha!

After we did the test drive the salesman who's doing the deal with my girlfriend pulled me aside while she was busy telling the finance people, in no uncertain terms that she had secured her own financing and didn't need or want the oh-so-benevolent help of the dealer financial arm.

"Couldn't help but notice you've got a pretty nice ride there my friend" He said as he gave me that classic salesman grin.

He wanted me to do a trade in with my car. They'd take my car, and give me a STEAL of a deal on a brand new whatever. It's a deal I couldn't go wrong with, he told me, as it was win-win. He wins, I win, and at the end of the day we both go home and eat apple pie and ice cream.

Now as a disclaimer, I'm not a smart man. I'm actually pretty dumb. And when in person on a face to face basis, I hate to upset or disapoint people. In short, I'm just about as big a sucker as they come, and this wolf had spotted me from a mile away.

He used every trick in the book. He was my buddy, wanted to help me out. Told me I paid too much for my current car and he wanted to set things right by helping me recoup some of my investment, new vehicle would have low payments, extended warranty, lower gas mileage, blah blah fricken blah.

I went from the tough guy going there to make sure they weren't going to rip off my girlfriend to a sucker saying things like-

"you know maybe your right.... maybe I could use a new vehicle!!!"

Keep in mind I was and am totally happy with my current ride, on which the last payment will be made in less than 2 years from now, freeing up a nice chunk of money.

I told him that it sounded like a good deal but I needed some time to think about it.

"What's there to think about???" He asked bombastically as he spread his arms in surprise

"Can't go wrong with this one, I'm doing you a huge favour!"

Car dealerships, for those of you not in the know, use extremely high pressure tactics. If you walk in there and you're able to afford it, they don't want you walking out without having signed some kind of piece of paper, even if you never had any intention or desire to get a car.

Most people, actually, are like me in that they don't want to be rude face to face. It's human nature. We're pre-disposed to try and be agreeable, especially when taken off guard by someone who's pulling all the moves and using all the body language of a friend. And dealers know this. They know all the psychology to use on trying to get you to commit tens of thousands of dollars in a split second without fully thinking it over.

Most folks, when you tell them a story like this, will in public say that they're wise to the ways of the sleazy car salesman and could never be fooled. Yet, when you talk to them in private those same folks will readily admit that they've been taken for a ride a time or two.

Anyway, I told the dealer I needed to know more numbers and details besides the baseline quote he gave me. He was emphatic that it was a no brainer and if I took too long someone else could snatch up this steal of a deal he was offering me on such good terms. You know, cause' like he liked me and was my friend right? He wanted at least a deposit on the vehicle, which was the breaking point for me. You can do a song and dance for me, but when I walk into a place with no intention of even looking and you've talked me to the point of getting a couple hundred dollar deposit out of me, that's when the alarm bells started ringing and I woke up.

Ten minutes after I left the dealership I was shaking my head at what an utter idiot I was. I was damn close to actually buying a brand new vehicle that I had no desire for, no need for, and would put me thousands of dollars in debt.

So what's the point to all this?

I may be an idiot, but in the big picture I think I fall in line as a roughly average joe when it comes to money and decisions about it. When I say average, I mean in that I realize the importance of saving money, staying out of debt as much as possible and trying to be reasonable in working towards that thing called "future money" which means investment towards retirement and the like.

Financially, I'm educated enough to know that credit cards are a bad thing (although necessary if you ever want to rent a car, stay in a hotel room, or get a free plane ride every now and then) and that you should always try to keep as small a balance owing as possible.

If you can't afford something, generally not a good idea to buy it. Don't spend beyond your means. And always try to have something left over at the end of the month you can squirrel away.

Every now and then, a little short term pain is necessary for long term gain, blah blah blah.

And despite all of this, despite the fact that I knew better, I almost got taken, came very close to buying something that I didn't want or need and taking on a significant amount of debt because of it.

Could I have afforded this bamboozlement? Sure. For me it would have been a forehead slapping "idiot, idiot, idiot!!!" moment but then life would go on little for the worse.

But lots of other folks get taken by the exact same song and dance and can't afford it.

Lots of other folks are hard working, well to do folks who just want to have a decent life. They don't want to take over the world. They're not going to cure cancer. But they're generally pretty easy to please. They just want their little slice of life and to be able to enjoy a cold beer at the end of the day. Sure, they may not be fire-starter inventor entrepreneur billionaire cowboy astronauts, but these are the folks who collect our garbage, fix our pipes, ensure power gets to our house and clean water flows from our taps.

These are the people who cook our meals, patrol our streets and enforce our laws. I mean no disrespect when I talk of "these" people because I'm one of them, just a middle-class joe.

But these people are also like me in that they don't like to be disagreeable to nice smiling people in suits and ties who look oh so smart. As I've stated in another thread, and taking a line from another blogger, it quite often comes down to;

"Just sign here Jeeter. In another year you'll be able to flip that double wide trailer and make a 100 grand in profit... or you can always use it as an ATM cause it's got equity so you can buy that nice new quad. Just you and me buddy, we'll take on the world!" as he gives you the wink and the gun.

We're raised all our lives, to defer to authority. We're brought up in an environment that teaches us to trust and worship money, and to believe the nice man in the suit who has money and a fancy plaque on the wall knows more and is better than us. Because he sits higher up than us on the totem pole, of course we're going to defer to his authority and believe him when he tells us he's got our best interests at heart.

And, after we've signed on the dotted line, which yes, is our responsibility for doing so, the truth is revealed.

The same smiling friend who was joking with us about going fishing and seemed so concerned for our well being suddenly becomes distant and barely tolerant when you see him at the grocery store the next day.

He's not your friend, and he never was. Congratulations, you've just been tricked and bamboozled by someone who's profit depends largely on your misery. And he'll gladly do it all over again, knowing full well that he's screwing you over in the process.

And how do we react when one of us gets in over our head and must foreclose or default on debts?

"Ha ha, screw that guy!! He got what he deserved, what a waste of skin!!!"

That's what we do. We sneer at those less fortunate than us, while absentmindedly clucking our tongues at the predatory lenders who knew better, but screwed that guy over in the first place.

At the end of the day, we are indeed our brother's keeper. We all have to look out for each other or these sleazeballs will end up ruling the world by default. In fact, they already pretty much do. And now that we've made our bed we're gonna have to sleep in it!


Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Oct 08, 2008

Use the Internet Luke!

I would not equate a home lender (although I am sure there are some like them) with a desperate car dealer.

But dont go on the lot.  I did not.  I shopped on line, got 3 dealers to start a bidding war on me, and then got a steal of a deal - with my own financing of course.  They make a big chunk of change on the financing anyway.

on Oct 08, 2008

We're raised all our lives, to defer to authority. We're brought up in an environment that teaches us to trust and worship money, and to believe the nice man in the suit who has money and a fancy plaque on the wall knows more and is better than us. Because he sits higher up than us on the totem pole, of course we're going to defer to his authority and believe him when he tells us he's got our best interests at heart.

I refer to something like this as "carved wood and marble syndrome." I've seen it played out a thousand times in the legal system -some guy gets accused of a crime, is jailed, and sounds off on and on and on how innocent he is or how wrong he's being done and how, when the time comes, he's gonna "put it to the man!" And then...one day his day in court rolls around and he's shackled up and goes to the courthouse where he can speak his peace and PUT IT TO THE MAN and then...he looks around and sees all the fine carved wood and marble in the architecture and all the men in suits and women dressed to the nines and...

...he settles. He signs the paperwork and commits himself to time in prison for whatever they offer him.

Heh, and so I consider: does not this happen to the rest of us when we go into banks or deal with business types or whatever-fill-in-the-blank? We see the fine architecture and the men in suits and the women dressed to the nines and we defer to that and sign the bottom line.

Brilliant article as usual Artysim!

on Oct 08, 2008

Sounds like some of the car dealers I've seen, although I would call it predatory selling (also known as the hard sell) more than predatory lending.

 

And as DrG said, the Internet is the way to go.

In the past people would go to the lots on days they were closed to get prices and VINs, determine the price they wanted to pay, financing etc. and walk in the next day with an offer. The Internet makes it even easier.

on Oct 09, 2008

Use the Internet Luke! I would not equate a home lender (although I am sure there are some like them) with a desperate car dealer. But dont go on the lot. I did not. I shopped on line, got 3 dealers to start a bidding war on me, and then got a steal of a deal - with my own financing of course. They make a big chunk of change on the financing anyway.

Thanks Dr. Guy- I actually hadn't thought of that but it's a great idea and I will definitely heed your advice next time I go car shopping!

 

 

on Oct 09, 2008

It's only as hard a sell as the customer will try make it.

First, always negotiate the new car before you even mention a trade-in. Dealers love to negotiate the trade-in first so they know how much to tack on the new car. If the trade in is a "beater" it's going directly to a third party (used car dealer or auction) and won't even stay on the lot for long.

This dealership was smart - they got you away from your girlfriend so you couldn't advise her. Probably tried to sell her undercoating, clear-coating, and extended warranties (all big money makers for the dealer).

Like Doc said use the Internet. You can find the vehicles real invoice there easily. I do this plus I go to the lot on Sunday when they are closed to look at the vehicle I want. You'll have to go back when they are open to take a test drive. Do this then tell the dealer you'll be in touch and leave. These might entice them to make you an offer, so you can see where you stand. Hint - dress nice for the test drive (I'd say even to the point of suit and tie) it makes a huge difference on how most dealers will treat you (first impressions).

Your girl is smart to secure financing prior to shopping. If, and sometimes they do, have a great deal on financing (for the most qualified buyer) you can always choose it. Know any dealer/buyer incentives before hand and the manufactures hold-back (both found on the Internet). Look at the inspection sticker (if available) if it's over a month old, that dealer is losing money on the vehicle and needs to sell, use that info to your advantage. Know what you will pay the dealer over the true invoice (i.e. what his profit will be) and decide what a fair price would be for him to hand you the keys.

Don't be afraid to walk away ever. if your offer is reasonable your phone will be ringing when you get home.

Now about the heart of your article. Car dealers have always been like this, nothing new here. Now, times are tougher so they will be even more aggressive. You need to shut them down before they feel they invested time in you. After he commented on your ride, you should have told him "Yeah, it is nice and I plan to keep it for a long time, now if you'll excuse me I'm here with my girl". Not rude, but in a polite way, if he insists, the gloves are off, "What don't you understand about I'm not interested". Why does this guy what to offer you the good buddy great deal, if you've never even met before in the first place? Car dealer never give their best offer first, especially to someone that didn't do their homework. IMO he was trying to separate you from your girl, and if he made an additional sale that was icing on the cake. The agent that was dealing with your girl probably called in back-up, especially if he/she thought your girl was being influenced by your opinion.

on Oct 09, 2008

I refer to something like this as "carved wood and marble syndrome." I've seen it played out a thousand times in the legal system -some guy gets accused of a crime, is jailed, and sounds off on and on and on how innocent he is or how wrong he's being done and how, when the time comes, he's gonna "put it to the man!" And then...one day his day in court rolls around and he's shackled up and goes to the courthouse where he can speak his peace and PUT IT TO THE MAN and then...he looks around and sees all the fine carved wood and marble in the architecture and all the men in suits and women dressed to the nines and... ...he settles. He signs the paperwork and commits himself to time in prison for whatever they offer him.

Heh, you basically summed up the gist of my whole sprawling article in one paragraph, kudos!

I agree 100 %. Although, going by that logic there is also another place carved of wood and marble with people dressed to the nines, that also has a mega-authority structure.... been to church lately???

on Oct 09, 2008

You're lucky you were able to walk away without throwing yourself into the hole that guy was digging!  It's awful what they do and so many times a lot of people fall for it. I've been down that raod before (not for a car), I'm not ashamed to say. As level-headed as you think you are, there are times those sales people talk a sweet talk and you fall hook, line and sinker!

on Oct 09, 2008

Now about the heart of your article. Car dealers have always been like this, nothing new here. Now, times are tougher so they will be even more aggressive. You need to shut them down before they feel they invested time in you. After he commented on your ride, you should have told him "Yeah, it is nice and I plan to keep it for a long time, now if you'll excuse me I'm here with my girl". Not rude, but in a polite way, if he insists, the gloves are off, "What don't you understand about I'm not interested". Why does this guy what to offer you the good buddy great deal, if you've never even met before in the first place? Car dealer never give their best offer first, especially to someone that didn't do their homework. IMO he was trying to separate you from your girl, and if he made an additional sale that was icing on the cake. The agent that was dealing with your girl probably called in back-up, especially if he/she thought your girl was being influenced by your opinion.

Nitro, you offer sage advice indeed! And the kicker is I know all this.... so why did I let myself get suckered?

I had my guard down. I figured that I was 'safe' and therefore that standard rules didn't apply... ha!

On the plus side, I'll never set foot in a dealership again without being prepared.

It's awful what they do and so many times a lot of people fall for it. I've been down that raod before (not for a car), I'm not ashamed to say. As level-headed as you think you are, there are times those sales people talk a sweet talk and you fall hook, line and sinker!

Yeah, it's surreal how quickly they can bamboozle you

on Oct 09, 2008

Yeah, it's surreal how quickly they can bamboozle you

Yuo have heard of the fast hucketers who sucker you out of a 20 for basically 5 ones.  All done with fast talk!  I am no rube, but one day I was almost caught as well.  And it was not my magnificent brain power that saved me.  Only the fact I did not have a 20!

on Oct 09, 2008

I had this kind of confrontation when I bought my car. My situation is probably worse than yours in a sense. While you were not interested and he tried (and almost succeeded) to get you to buy a car when you didn't have the intentions of buying one, I, on the other hand, did want a car, had a trade in so he didn't need to convince me to buy a car, but simply to buy the one he wanted which would probably yield him more money than simply trying to convince me to buy any car at all.

The only thing I regret is not doing my homework before hand and I probably could have gootten a much better deal on this car. But the deal is done and now I have a decent, reliable gas efficient car with warranty and stuff and while my credit was not that great so I am paying a somewhat high payment, I am OK knowing it's my fault after all for messing up my credit. There's a reason they call them sharks.

 

on Oct 09, 2008

 

I had my guard down.

Hey it happens to the best. When I was on active duty, it seemed like one of my guys (the women I served with never seemed to have this problem) was falling for this every month. With EZ financing for E-1 and up schemes (about 28% interest at the time) at every used car place in town. It got to be a big problem, so every month I would bore the heck out of them with how to buy a car. I think it helped. That's why i posted in detail, if I can help one person reading the comments from making a mistake, it's worth it.

I am paying a somewhat high payment

Charles do you belong to a credit union? If not might I suggest you look into one. Some just require that your a resident of a town or geographical area, or based on your work. The reason I ask is that many credit unions offer second chance loans on vehicles, even if it's been months. Also if that is not an option their used car loans can often be better than many bank and dealerships financing charges. Example, this is my credit unions used car rates:

up to 36 mos.
37 to 72 mos.
4.75%
6.00%

Minus an additional .25% off if the vehicle is from the 2007/2008 model year. Just one or two percentage points can make a big difference to your payment.

on Oct 09, 2008

With EZ financing for E-1 and up schemes (about 28% interest at the time) at every used car place in town. It got to be a big problem, so every month I would bore the heck out of them with how to buy a car. I think it helped. That's why i posted in detail, if I can help one person reading the comments from making a mistake, it's worth it

I'm sure it did, you probably saved a lot of economic pain for your comrades! And, thanks for the detailed description posted earlier. It makes a lot of sense and forewarned is forearmed.

As to the EZ financing, there's a dealership here in town that a little while back offered their can't miss deal of:

"no credit?"

"bad credit?"

"recent bankruptcy?"

NO PROBLEM!!!!

They would sell used vehicles for 30% interest on the financing. If you made regular payments on time for a year, they would be oh so gracious and drop the interest down to 25 % for the remainder. When I heard about this I said "you've gotta be f***ing kidding" Lo and behold, one of my buddies, imagine a fellow named jeeter who's been known to cook off the manifold on long road-trips, thought this was the greatest thing since sliced bread (government had garnisheed his paycheque and took a big chunk every pay perdiod due to back taxes owing)

He was just thrilled that he'd get a shiny sort-of new whatever, and of course, the only thing he cared about was the monthly payments.

on Oct 09, 2008

The only thing I regret is not doing my homework before hand and I probably could have gootten a much better deal on this car. But the deal is done and now I have a decent, reliable gas efficient car with warranty and stuff and while my credit was not that great so I am paying a somewhat high payment, I am OK knowing it's my fault after all for messing up my credit. There's a reason they call them sharks

One thing I've found is universal, it doesn't matter what the deal you got was, you'll always find someone who thinks you got screwed.

on Oct 09, 2008

I am working for a car dealer and don't feel that the salesmen I work with are predatory.  It is tough times for dealerships and salesmen.  They definately want to get you in a vehicle.  Generally, people who come to the dealership WANT to buy a car.  I will agree that in general you can usually secure the best price through internet sales.  I will also say that I think the philosophy of giving yourself a waiting period before the purchase is an excellent idea.  The salesmen doesn't want to let you go because he thinks you won't be coming back.  He wants to close the deal but its best if you have some time to really think about the purchase. 

on Oct 09, 2008

I had a long post about my last car-buying experience.  It ended up being too personal but basically, I got the price I wanted, the color I wanted and the finance person didn't call me at work (maybe she didn't get through) or at home.  So I decided to use my down payment in another way.

When the salesman called me a week later to ask if I was coming in I told him I changed my mind because the finance woman never contacted me to let me know if I qualified for a loan (which I should have done pretty easily).

I could have called the dealer but I was miffed that they couldn't be bothered to call me and I had another opportunity come up.

I bet the sales guy was annoyed.  I was basically a sure sale until Olga the Finance Lady fumbled.

2 Pages1 2