Published on November 14, 2009 By Artysim In Politics

Hey did you hear? It turns out that the recession is over! Nevermind that the real unemployment rate is creeping up on 20%

Never mind that companies and individuals the world over have had to cut their spending to the bone, close their doors, lose their homes, declare bankruptcy, or visit pawn shops to make an extra buck.

Never mind that trillions of dollars of public money has gone into private hands "for the good of the economy" all the while causing governments to make tough decisions between whether or not to keep paying grannie smith her pension or close the public library (who needs books anyway!?! Seriously...)

No, the masters of the universe, the major banks and financial investment firms have cheerily declared that the emergency is over. While millions across the globe face a dark future of either sub-standard work, no work or a lifetime of transient labor (it's called going where the work is, look up the history of coal miners in 19th century America) The banks have had their keesters pulled out of the fire and in their books all is well now.

Now that the predatory, flawed system of casino capitalism has been preserved with YOUR tax dollars, the banks are quite content to sit back, pull in a decent profit and watch from their glass towers while the ants below (that's you and me) languish and fight each other for whatever scraps are left over.

Don't believe me? All the mouthpieces from the ass-hat economists who never saw the fiasco coming to well-paid analysts are saying the same thing; life for corporate America is safe, as for the rest of us, well, we can go pound sand. After we bailed them out, they've turned around and said

"Hey, thanks for the help. We're fine now, so you can fuck off. I hear Wal-mart might be hiring in the next county"

The situation isn't right, nor is it fair, and there's a lot of things I think should be done to these folks that will most assuredly never come to be.

But one thing that can and -should- be done?

Let's tax the hell out of them!

Now don't get your panties in a knot. I'm not talking about taxing "the rich", or about taking money from the well-to-do small business owner who's struggling to break even, or the middle class (which by the way is disapearing rapidly)

No, I want to tax the FINANCIAL economy.

For anyone not familiar, we have two types of economy. The first is the real economy. This is widgets built or services rendered. "Widget" means anything from furniture to cars to food to software. Something tangible. Services rendered is everything from a plumber fixing that leak in your house to the barber who gives you a haircut to the accountant who does your taxes.

The financial economy, however is another matter entirely. This economy was never intended to be it's own little world but started out as a means of supporting and growing the real economy. However, things have gotten flipped around and now the financial economy has largely become parasitic to the real economy -and- exists in a magical world of make believe in which virtual money trades hands, and, magically creates more virtual money.

It's all quite convoluted but to a great extent it's become the world's biggest show of smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that no real work is being done or goods produced to "create" all of this virtual wealth. As a side effect of creating this world of financial make-believe, the real world consequences are quite apparent as ultimately the buck has to stop somewhere and it's turned out to be the real economy. Shenanigans and "exotic" debt models created by the banks purely based on a greed for profit have mucked up things royally back in real world resulting in massive unemployment, bankruptcies and foreclosures galore.

So, back to my solution.

In order to reign in the beast and return the financial economy to it's rightful place as a support mechanism, we should tax financial transactions.

Everytime a share of stock  is bought, we should put a 0.25 % financial transactions tax on it.

This means, if you were to buy 10,000 dollars of stock you would pay 25 dollars at the time of purchase in tax. If, 10 years later you were to sell that same stock for 20,000 dollars, you would have to pay a whole 50 dollars. No big deal right?

Under this system, if you're buying stock with the intent of holding on to it for awhile (as it should be) you've got  nothing to worry about.

If you're a day trader who buys at 1 PM with the intent of selling at 2 PM, this will take a bigger chunk out of your pocket and discourage such practices.

A financial transactions tax doesn't address all the issues but it's a start, and it penalizes the speculators who want to turn a fast buck for no work. Fuck them, they can and should get a job at Wal-mart alongside the recently laid off manufacturing worker!

The best part? This isn't my idea. It's already being done in England and I got the concept from this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/09/us-wall-street-financial-transactions-tax

 


Comments (Page 2)
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on Nov 16, 2009

aeortar-

Remember where the problems with the real economy started though - it was with the financial sector (that is, they suffered problems, and then those fed through to the rest of us).

Yes, exactly right. But, why exactly did the financial sector run into problems? Because years ago it decoupled from the real economy and built a nice little house of cards that recently tumbled down when the scam (things like CDO's and derivatives) were exposed as the utterly toxic and worthless shit they really are.

What was the solution to the financial sectors problems?

Conservative ideology states that they should have "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" and sank or swim on their own credit.

But that didn't happen!

Instead, the private sector received a massive bailout of public tax dollars. They used that money, largely to rebuild their little house of cards and start up the predatory casino all over again. As soon as they got back on their feet, they told the unemployed, debt-ridden average joe to go fuck himself as they were now ok, thank you very much.

You are right, the point of the financial economy is supposed to be to make sure that money is invested where needed. But the current financial system has gotten away from that and moved into a nice little world of make-believe.

These mooks have already screwed over the average American citizen once and you can be damned sure they'll do it again if given half a chance.

As my favorite quote from George W Bush goes:

"Fool me once, shame on you.... fool me twice....we can't get fooled again!!!"

on Nov 16, 2009

[quote]This information is easily attainable but let's take a little look-see here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#cite_note-CRS_FY2009-0[/quote]

Wonderful link... I especially really appreciate how the pie chart shows those liberal entitlement programs (Social Security and Medicare) strangling the GDP by almost half. I recall a similar chart when I was a kid in high school. Back then Defense accounted for 45% while SS and Medicare accounted for 20%. We can now definitely see what will sap any wealth the US has in the future. And those loons in Congress want to add another massive money pit to the budget. More Americans should see a comparison to see how the entitlement monster is growing.

Another interesting chart there was the map that shows the world military expenditures by GDP percentage. It clearly shows who in the alliance are slackers. Perhaps if they paid their share, Americans could save some of their hard earned cash. I guess it's easy when you have a "rich" uncle. It will be an interesting world when the US can't and the rest won't. BTW China has no social health care, you don't pay you don't go to the hospital, even the emergency room. They have no entitlements to tie up their resources. It will be fascinating to see what occurs when their austerity clashes with western sensibilities. Who knows maybe Canada will be the leader then, and we can just go for the ride. Maybe Obama will take some of their advice over there and learn to do more than bow like their trained circus pet while begging for scraps.

1) That 1 trillion dollar was not payed for with cold hard cash, it all went to your national debt, aka VISA. As you know anything you put on credit ends up increasing thanks to interest until you start paying it off, which aint gonna happen anytime soon.

No doubt the US is in debt. You stated "it all went to your national debt" (referring to every cent spent on defense including special funding). Since you apparently have an accounting job with the US government, maybe you can tell me were the $2.52 trillion in tax revenue collected (2008) went? You seem to think we charged everything. I'll make it easy for you, just tell me one military program that was put on what you like to call, the "VISA" card.  LOL So I guess China is paying for our SS and Medicare too, or do they just take loans for military spending? More wishful thinking on your part? Maybe if the debt payment consumed the entire tax collected, you'd have a point. You foreign liberals will have to wring your hands in anticipation a little while longer while your US president tries to make that happen for you.

2) VA and healthcare costs (long term) remember 35,000 physical casualties, over 100,000 cases of PTSD or other psychological trauma, not too mention the several hundred thousand other servicemembers.

3) Replacement of gear and personnel- This is the longest duration the United States Military has seen combat deployments in it's history. An Army's strength needs to be husbanded, not continuously thrown into the grinder. Pretty much everyone agrees (both civillian consultants and military planners) that U.S forces will need down time of at least a few years to re-organize, replenish, retrain, re-equip, etc after such a long deployment.

How ever did we fight WWII? Oh my! I guess the Army can't function unless they are all at home to train together. In WWII you didn't go home (alive) until the war was over. The military must make their own equipment too. Those Army bases must be regular little Santa's workshops. I think you are confusing the US military with many of the other NATO forces. 

4) Civilian contractors. Wha? That's right, thanks to your old' pal Rumsfeld half the stuff that used to be done by folks in uniform is now being done by private 'defence contractors' for double, triple or quadruple the price (mostly given out on no-bid contracts) that would be paid for a fellow in uniform to do it. Heck, there's an armed 450 man battalion employed by a company called Armorgroup North to provide embassy security in Kabul and they don't come cheap!

You apparently like to count the same figures over and over . Whatever proves a point, right? There is no separate fund to replace military equipment. There is no separate fund for military contractors, which have been in use long before Rumsfeld BTW. I really like your VA figures for PTSD. According to your figures about 1 in 10 men and women in the military suffer from PTSD (that's assuming the entire US Army, Marines, and Air force participate in combat...they don't). In Iraq their are 142,000 and 31, 000 in Afghanistan. Since you like Wikipedia . They must be barely functional (I guess Al Quaida propaganda films are popular on Canadian TV) especially those on their 2 or 3, or more, tour of duty. The US wounded since 2001 until October is  4434 (Link can also find the numbers for those doing the fighting for the talkers back home, by country). 35000 might be your hope, but fortunately not true (Weren't you one of those a few years ago saying Iraqi civilian casualties were over 600,000? I seem to recall, but could be mistaken.). Yeah, as for the "several hundred thousand" other service members you speak of - I myself have a 20% VA disability, yet I've never step foot in a VA hospital, no need to. I pay for my own disability from my military pension (as does every retired vet with less than a 50% disability). They take my small disability payment out and give it right back to me. Military retirement comes out of defense spending by the way.You throw around your "facts" but in reality your an outsider looking in, don't have any real clue and it shows. Your article is proof positive of that.

BTW Here's some bad news for you, both the Army and Marines have  met their recruiting goal for the fiscal year months before it ended. Guess these young Americans want their shot at PTSD.

As for the OP, one last thought on this silly topic. The Bush tax cuts go away next year (35% will be 38%) this includes Capital Gains tax, which is taxed at the highest bracket. So no need for your little nuisance tax, they will haul in much more cash that way, at least in the interim. Obama knows taxes, never fear for that. You can float your idea in those countries where people expect the government to take care of them and personal choice is not a big deal.

 

on Nov 17, 2009

I said that programs have been developed that look for trends and try to time a buy or sell order at the perceived peak or trough value for maximum impact

Hmm, sounds like you describe perfectly a "magic" piece of software that will pick winning stocks" to me. How exactly is your concept different?

It's funny how 2 people say the say thing yet see 2 different meanings.

on Nov 17, 2009

I know how to save the economy. It involves other people paying more.

 

 

on Nov 17, 2009

I know how to save the economy. It involves other people paying more

That seems to be the current level of thinking.

on Nov 17, 2009

That seems to be the current level of thinking.

Nobody ever comes up with some new revolutionary way of making things better for everyone that involves spending their own money.

 

 

on Nov 17, 2009

What was the solution to the financial sectors problems?

Conservative ideology states that they should have "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" and sank or swim on their own credit.

But that didn't happen!

Instead, the private sector received a massive bailout of public tax dollars. They used that money, largely to rebuild their little house of cards and start up the predatory casino all over again.

I'd agree there, what should have happened is the companies who got themselves into such a mess should have been left to go under, and bailing them out means such financial institutions has a great incentive to repeat their behaviour (since they benefit from the upside and get bailed out if things go wrong). Since the bail out has already happened the next best solution is to ensure that no financial institution is allowed to be 'too big to fail', meaning that they can no longer be as confident of that bail out, and a few of them can be allowed to fail without causing the whole system to come crashing down. It also means I'd be happy with the government imposing various painful things upon any banks/companies being bailed out such as an additional tax just for them, since that would also encourage them to avoid such behaviour in the future. My problem with a tax such as you proposed though is that it punishes everyone - banks, individuals, other businesses - regardless of whether they were bailed out or engaged in reckless behaviour or not, and as such you lose the positive behavioural influence that a 'bail-out' tax would have(/have had since the bail out has happened).

on Nov 17, 2009

I'd agree there, what should have happened is the companies who got themselves into such a mess should have been left to go under, and bailing them out means such financial institutions has a great incentive to repeat their behaviour (since they benefit from the upside and get bailed out if things go wrong).

Wow! We can finally agree on this point.

on Nov 17, 2009

The US wounded since 2001 until October is 4434 (Link can also find the numbers for those doing the fighting for the talkers back home, by country). 35000 might be your hope, but fortunately not true

Um, Nitro..... U.S wounded in Iraq alone is 30,182 wounded and 4,280 killed. Put the two numbers together, and you get 34,462 casualties (that's wounded + killed)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

The 4,434 number you quoted sounds suspiciously like the Afghanistan wounded total, which is officially 4,471 wounded and 844 killed, and -if- you add casualties from Afghanistan and Iraq, present total is 39,777 U.S killed and wounded.

I really like your VA figures for PTSD. According to your figures about 1 in 10 men and women in the military suffer from PTSD (that's assuming the entire US Army, Marines, and Air force participate in combat...they don't). In Iraq their are 142,000 and 31, 000 in Afghanistan. Since you like Wikipedia .

Yes, presently at this exact moment there are 142,000 servicemembers in Iraq and by the end of 2009 there will be 68,000 in Afghanistan. But, U.S troops have been deployed to Iraq longer than the duration of all WW2 and troops have been deployed to Afghanistan longer than your involvement in Vietnam.

Surely you don't need me to split hairs and get into the sheer number of bodies are needed (Albeit many of them the same ones on recurring tours) to keep the deployed force at strength for such a long time as people rotate in and out of country?

Well, I guess you do. It works out to be 1.6 million bodies deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001.

Of those 1.6 million deployments, several studies conducted estimate that the number of mental-health injuries comprise approximately 300,000 returning servicemen, a far higher number than the 100,000 I quoted. Take a look-see here.... the primary organization behind this study was the RAND corporation, CLEARLY they and the various health organizations they worked with to corroborate their findings are all liberal front groups right?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24183188

There is no separate fund for military contractors, which have been in use long before Rumsfeld BTW.

No arguments, military contractors have been around for a long time. However, they're usage under rumsfeld quite literally skyrocketed to never before seen proportions. Since you're such an expert, Nitro, about the military, why don't you recount to me the speech Rumsfeld gave to the Pentagon on Sept. 10, 2001?

Let me do it for you. He basically stated that the number 1 enemy facing the U.S military was the U.S military itself. The military bureaucracy, he stated, was so massively cumbersome and ineffective that he was essentially going to privatize every single function of the military that he could, with the exception of course of the front line combat troops.

Now you know very well that for every uniformed man in combat, you need several in the rear (I was always told a ratio of 10:1 or 6:1 depending) doing everything from maintaining vehicles, cooking food, shuffling paperwork and a thousand other tasks. What Rumsfeld did was tap into a massive amount of the rear-echelon stuff and put it in the hands of the private sector.

You want to know a funny statistic?

During GW 1, there was 1 contractor for ever 100 soldier

At the start of 2003, the beginning of GW 2, the ratio was one contractor to 10 soldiers.

By 2006 the ratio was 1 contractor per 3 soldiers

By 2007 the ratio was 1 contractor per 1.4 soldiers

Keep in mind these are all purely "defence and defence related" contractors, all getting paid a lot more than what a counterpart U.S serviceman is getting. A report from the GAO in 2006 stated that of all the defence contractors in the country, approximately 48,000 were armed security services, essentially hired guns like Blackwater, Triple Canopy, Custer Battles and so forth.

Then of course you had the ever famous Halliburton which took on dozens of the army's traditional functions like repairing and maintaining vehicles and radios.

I could go on and on. Entire books have been written on the subject.... "Blackwater" by Jeremy Scahill is a good one you should read, but suffice it to say that "this man's army" sure aint what it used to be and has had many of it's traditional roles outsourced entirely, all being paid for by top taxpayer dollar!

I especially really appreciate how the pie chart shows those liberal entitlement programs (Social Security and Medicare) strangling the GDP by almost half.

Indeed. I think that social security and medicare in the U.S should be abolished entirely. While you're at it, why don't you get rid of the public education system too? I mean, it's not like the U.S has a bunch of retirees that are depending on any of these programs. Let's let granny smith freeze to death and lower the surplus population!

And that fellow who gave 15 or 20 years of service at Ford or Chrysler and just lost his job, how dare the slacker expect a handout, let him pull himself up by his bootstraps!

 

on Nov 17, 2009

Hi Chuck,

Hmm, sounds like you describe perfectly a "magic" piece of software that will pick winning stocks" to me. How exactly is your concept different?

Well, I thought I spelled it out pretty clearly earlier. Here goes:

A "winning" stock is something that is backed up by a solid company, that's doing good business and has a decent future, in fact quite possibly a much, much brighter future than it's current state. The only way you can find a "winning" stock is, as Nitro said, doing your homework, lots of research, and of course knowing general market trends. For example, if you were to purchase shares of Microsoft in the early to mid 80's, or stocks of Google a few years back are good bets.

Up where I live there are several diamond mines that opened up shop just outside of town and during their start up were penny stocks. Some of the folks that invested in them when they were penny stocks became millionaires and have since retired.

Then, a lot of people got it in their heads that if you invest in any new diamond mine you're sure to become rich. A few years later another diamond mine opened up in the area and everyone poured money into it, but it turns out the mineral people hadn't really done their homework and built the mine on an area not nearly as good as they thought it was. The mine folded and the investors basically watched their money go up in a puff of smoke.

Now, the first mines were what you would call a "winning" stock because if you did your homework you'd find that their business case and position was a sure-fire deal. They had done their homework and had all the results from all kinds of test and surveys to show that they were building on a very rich deposit, AND they had several major customers lined up before construction had even started.

The mine a few years later was not a winning stock, because if you did your homework you would find that their tests and surveys weren't nearly as ironclad or complete as the previous mines and their business case was more improvised than planned.

In this case the mine basically said "the tests aren't 100% conclusive but they're good enough that we feel confident we'll get a lot of high grade diamonds!"  and folks, remembering the people who went from rags to riches overnight by investing in other mines, gladly threw their money at it without really checking it out first.

So, the above is an example of what is, and isn't a winning stock.

The software programs that I was talking about don't care or need to know what stock they're trading. It could be a winner stock or a loser stock, it really doesn't matter one little bit. So long as it's something that's being bought or sold in volume (lot's of people buying up stock for a company and hoping it'll rise or lots of people unloading their stock from a company they think is doomed) there are going to be thousands of micro-fluctuations over the course of a day when the stock is either rising or falling by miniscule amounts.

These programs look for these little micro-peaks and troughs to issue the buy or sell recommendation at the opportune time and day-traders will often place multiple buy and sell orders over the course of a single day as they move money around in larger and larger increments to try and make a profit off of very small margins.

 

on Nov 17, 2009

[quote]Um, Nitro..... U.S wounded in Iraq alone is 30,182 wounded and 4,280 killed. Put the two numbers together, and you get 34,462 casualties (that's wounded + killed) http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm[/quote]

Nice chart and nice big page explanation of methodology. Maybe they are counting boo boos (they do, even in peacetime). I gave you the Department of Defense figures (they might be counting only combat causalities) LINK even breaks it down by state. Statistics. Of course I've seen plenty of men die, and even more hurt and that was between wars. It happens. Have you ever picked up body parts Arty? If not I guess you can read about it.

Of those 1.6 million deployments, several studies conducted estimate that the number of mental-health injuries comprise approximately 300,000 returning servicemen, a far higher number than the 100,000 I quoted.

Yeah here's another Obama friendly source (CBS), granted from last year, quoting metal health "casualties" LINK . Funny, I had to fill out one of these silly questionnaires when I got out. Are you sad, do you have trouble sleeping, blah, blah, blah I wouldn't be surprised if give to Canada half your population would have PSTD! But you read it somewhere...it must be true. I'm sure there are some people that can't handle stress well. Then there are those that like to convince people their is something wrong with them because they had a bad day.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24183188

  The number's here will really get better soon on the Obama news network.

By 2007 the ratio was 1 contractor per 1.4 soldiers Keep in mind these are all purely "defence and defence related" contractors, all getting paid a lot more than what a counterpart U.S serviceman is getting. A report from the GAO in 2006 stated that of all the defence contractors in the country, approximately 48,000 were armed security services, essentially hired guns like Blackwater, Triple Canopy, Custer Battles and so forth.

I guess the U.S. Central Command, July 2007, is full of crap then. 67659 workers in Iraq and Afghanistan. If I multiply that figure by 1.4, I get 94722.6 hardly half of the troops that are there  LINK . Damn statistics! So who do you trust? A Canadian civilian with an Internet connection I suppose! LOL! 

Since you're such an expert, Nitro, about the military, why don't you recount to me the speech Rumsfeld gave to the Pentagon on Sept. 10, 2001?

Obama had a speech too, in 2008, stating his plan for US troops to be removed from Iraq by March 31, 2009 LINK

Now what was your point????

Show me a politician, elected or appointed, and I'll show you a speech not worth the paper (or teleprompter) it's written on. Your statement is laughable. Do you believe everything you read and hear as fact that something will occur?

Then of course you had the ever famous Halliburton which took on dozens of the army's traditional functions like repairing and maintaining vehicles and radios.

Good! Someone got to do the fighting. they don't have time to fix vehicles (though some there do). Haliburton takes care of depot level (with the military, mostly in Kuwait, ever been? It's expensive.). This ain't Canada, eh?

I could go on and on. Entire books have been written on the subject.... "Blackwater" by Jeremy Scahill is a good one you should read, but suffice it to say that "this man's army" sure aint what it used to be and has had many of it's traditional roles outsourced entirely, all being paid for by top taxpayer dollar!

And on and on you go. It's easy to be a stay at home chicken shit, when you could join and find out for yourself, right? But that isn't you is it. It's much easier to criticize a military that isn't even your own. Get in line, there are plenty of asshats here ahead of you. Barnes and Nobles is full of books where you can find support your for position, and better proposed. That don't make it a reality. I wonder if scrubs that never never served like to tell their doctors how to operate too?

You have a fascination with Rumsfeld, I didn't care much for him either, but he sure as hell didn't run the military. Not in the way you give him credit. Maybe you want troops to get off patrol and cook their meals, clean barracks, etc. Well I say anything that makes those men and womens comfort easier after a day of putting their lives on the line, is worth it. Maybe these contractors get paid too much, people aren't exactly flocking to work there, but I don't have to tell you that do I Mr. Self-sacrifice?  

Indeed. I think that social security and medicare in the U.S should be abolished entirely. While you're at it, why don't you get rid of the public education system too? I mean, it's not like the U.S has a bunch of retirees that are depending on any of these programs. Let's let granny smith freeze to death and lower the surplus population

Ah liberal sarcasm, gotta love it. They want to show off their "knowledge" then get their panties in a twist when  it is shown for what it is. BTW I used your link on another thread, thanks!

And that fellow who gave 15 or 20 years of service at Ford or Chrysler and just lost his job, how dare the slacker expect a handout, let him pull himself up by his bootstraps!

They signed their contracts, I signed mine...only exception I wasn't in a Union. Might have had a little more stashed if they didn't pay their dues. Bet the union bosses still have a job. See how well that worked out!

I'm not entirely unsympathetic to their plight, even though they share the greed with the company that created that monster. They did however pay into unemployment insurance (same as me) so they have that. Obama keeps adding weeks to collect unemployment. Funny the only time he had a problem with spending was for the already won Iraq war.

Anyway let me know when you write an article fixing Canada. I have plenty of solutions, speeches, and websites so we can get it straightened out quick. After all it is about the population of the largest 10 US cities, give or take a few. 

on Nov 18, 2009

They signed their contracts, I signed mine...only exception I wasn't in a Union. Might have had a little more stashed if they didn't pay their dues. Bet the union bosses still have a job. See how well that worked out!

I love how "evil unions" keep getting blamed for so many of your economic problems and yet they make up only 10 % of your workforce. The truth is that unionized labor in the U.S had it's back broken by Reagan and never really recovered, getting stomped on by every single president since Ol 'Ronnie (Clinton was actually one of the worst FYI)

But yet, the auto-manufacturing sector in Germany and Japan is fully unionized and they're doing a hell of a lot better than their American counter-parts...... hmmmm, I wonder why that could be....

And on and on you go. It's easy to be a stay at home chicken shit, when you could join and find out for yourself, right? But that isn't you is it. It's much easier to criticize a military that isn't even your own. Get in line, there are plenty of asshats here ahead of you. Barnes and Nobles is full of books where you can find support your for position, and better proposed. That don't make it a reality. I wonder if scrubs that never never served like to tell their doctors how to operate too?

Just trying to help Nitro. If you don't want to consider another viewpoint but instead put your hands over your ears and spout ideological blather it's you who is losing out, I'm sorry to say. All I was doing was providing a reference for my position, which I would be thrilled if you would consider. On the flip side, if you would recommend some literature espousing your viewpoint I would absolutely make the effort to investigate that.

Or, you can continue calling me a "stay at home chicken shit" which is terribly unproductive but somewhat entertaining nonetheless.

 And for the record, I did serve in the Army, joined up right after I graduated from High School. I never went to war but I did participate in the defense of my country.

Funny, I had to fill out one of these silly questionnaires when I got out. Are you sad, do you have trouble sleeping, blah, blah, blah I wouldn't be surprised if give to Canada half your population would have PSTD! But you read it somewhere...it must be true

If you want to make fun of PTSD as something that's make believe I feel very sorry for you, and am shocked that you would so quickly mock and belittle your fellow veterans. ALL of the veterans organizations in the States and Canada seem to take PTSD pretty seriously and recognize it for what it is, a real problem that affects a lot more people than official numbers will ever tally. I especially enjoyed your other comments where you tauntingly asked if I had ever picked up body parts and then mentioned that you had.

In answer to your question, no, I have not and I'm thankful for it. I saw firsthand people with PTSD and it's not something I'd wish on anyone.

I guess the U.S. Central Command, July 2007, is full of crap then. 67659 workers in Iraq and Afghanistan

Well, see here's the thing Nitro.... you linked to an article that says "as per central command there are x number workers in Iraq" and called it good at that. If you do a little more digging, you'll find that that was simply an estimate on their part and that thanks to the CPA's bungling and the fact that contracts were being handed out by multiple different agencies (dept. of state, various branches of the pentagon and so forth) -AND- look at the fact that much of the work was then further sub-contracted out, no one could really say for sure but only guess.

This if from the Congressional Research Service, which states that in 2009 the number of contractors to uniformed personnel is virtually 1:1

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40764.pdf

I gave you the Department of Defense figures (they might be counting only combat causalities)

Nitro.... I'm sorry to break it to you but the numbers you provided are not the DOD figures for the entire Iraq War. The link below, is (defenselink.mil)

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

Let me break it down for you:

Total Deaths: 4,364

KIA: 3,476

Non-Hostile deaths: 888

wounded in action/returned to duty: 17,686

wounded in action/not returned to duty: 13,880

 

 

 

 

on Nov 18, 2009

I love how "evil unions" keep getting blamed for so many of your economic problems and yet they make up only 10 % of your workforce.

Thank gawd for that! But even though they are in decline they spend more money on politics than ever and hold particular sway over this administration in-particular (got to repay those "contributions").

But yet, the auto-manufacturing sector in Germany and Japan is fully unionized and they're doing a hell of a lot better than their American counter-parts...... hmmmm, I wonder why that could be....

Excellent question! Why don't you ask them why they don't use unions at their plants in the US? Maybe the US auto makers should follow suit. Perhaps the US Auto plants in let's say Canada would be a good start. Wouldn't you say?

Just trying to help Nitro.

We don't need nor do we ask for your "help". We have plenty of morons in office here with similar ideas, thank you very much.

Funny, I had to fill out one of these silly questionnaires when I got out. Are you sad, do you have trouble sleeping, blah, blah, blah I wouldn't be surprised if give to Canada half your population would have PSTD! But you read it somewhere...it must be true

If you want to make fun of PTSD as something that's make believe I feel very sorry for you, and am shocked that you would so quickly mock and belittle your fellow veterans.

You are an asshat aren't you? I relate my personal experience (not anyone else's) and you twist it (like your "research") to meet your needs. Congratulations. Your shallow condescending sympathy from the comfort of your home is not wanted or needed. I hope you never have to experience war, but since your in Canada there is nowhere else to run and hide is there?

Let me break it down for you:

You obviously don't know jack about "causality " reporting. Anyone showing up for sick call is recorded. That includes hang nails, yeast infections, tooth aches...and a whole host of things that don't have a damn thing to do with war. In fact you might be surprised to know there were 4302 military deaths under president Clinton's watch, and he was in war denial during his term, so you can say it was peace time LINK. I know more damn statistics. But thanks anyway for your broke down break down.

If you want to wander through life believing what bureaucrats and agenda peddlers spoon feed you, be my guest. I'll take my personal experience over that, it has served me very well. It's your counterparts in the US that will pay dearly for their votes in the years to come, as many do not have the options I have available.

on Nov 18, 2009

We don't need nor do we ask for your "help". We have plenty of morons in office here with similar ideas, thank you very much.

No problem, it's freely given. At this point in time, you guys need all the help you can get!

You obviously don't know jack about "causality " reporting. Anyone showing up for sick call is recorded. That includes hang nails, yeast infections, tooth aches...and a whole host of things that don't have a damn thing to do with war

Got it, so let's get this straight:

I state that the U.S military has approximately 35,000 official casualties in Iraq alone (I should have stated explicitly COMBAT casualties, my bad for not doing so at the beginning) and you reply that I'm incorrect it's actually only 4,474.

I post my source which you state is wrong, as you have the "official tally".

I reply with the official document from the DOD stating that it is, indeed actually 35,000.

You blather on about how I'm an idiot on casualty reporting and how all those folks really just had hang-nails and yeast infections.

But here's the kicker- those numbers are explicitly -killed in action- and -wounded in action- hence do not include sick call and other casualties deemed non-hostile.

I really like how you can't admit that I was actually right about something, just go ahead and say it, it's really not very hard.

You are an asshat aren't you?

Oh Nitro, how I do enjoy this dialogue!

What I was responding to was the fact that I had presented a valid source on PTSD of returning veterans (several studies conducted by RAND corporation and other medical groups) and you simply dismissed it out of hand as if it was just made up mumbo-jumbo, then went on to belittle the manner in which the medical condition of veterans is assessed.

Since we're talking personal stories my brother is actually a doctor in one of your VA hospitals in Kentucky (temporarily) and he's dealt with some of the returning casualties, which are far more than "hang-nails and sick calls" as you like to state.

Excellent question! Why don't you ask them why they don't use unions at their plants in the US?

Umm, Nitro..... hate to break it to you, but a company doesn't "choose" to use a union at their plant, anymore so than a U.S manufacturer could "get rid of" the Canadian unions in it's auto plants.

Union's are formed by the workers, and there needs to be a majority vote. In the case of the German and Japanese companies who own auto plants in the U.S, the workers have never had a majority vote in favor of unionizing (by and large, there's been the odd one out where it happened and then died in the set-up stages after the vote)

The only way a company can "get rid of" a union at a plant is by closing it, which all of the big 3 automakers have done enmasse and moved a lot of U.S jobs to Mexico already.

But, if we go back to the German and Japanese examples they're sitting pretty. In fact, in Germany the Unions at the major automakers actually have a say in who gets on the board of directors of the company, something I would love to be adopted here!

 

 

on Nov 18, 2009

If you want to wander through life believing what bureaucrats and agenda peddlers spoon feed you

Ha! This coming from the man who called me a "tax and spend liberal" a term straight out of the official list of accepted phrases from the "agenda peddlers" you state are spoon-feeding me.

You should be glad to know that most of my opinions will never see the light of day in your farce of a media which is owned and controlled by the corporate state. Yes, that's right "corporate" and "state" is what happens when the government stops playing their role as traffic cop and get's in bed with big business. That's the government you have now and it doesn't matter whether it's a dem or republican in office, as either will be beholden to these interests. This is why the following statement you made

It's your counterparts in the US that will pay dearly for their votes in the years to come,

doesn't really matter because everyone's screwed regardless of whether they vote right or left. Until you get rid of the two party system, both parties will gladly screw the living daylights out of you, just each in their own special way (but that's another topic)

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